An Interview With Glenn B. Fleming, Writer, Artist and Creator of Kirby Documentary
(EDITOR’S NOTE: Paint Monk’s Library blogger Dean Plakas talks one-on-one with Glenn B. Fleming, writer, artist and the producer of a detailed documentary on the life of the great Jack Kirby. Glenn shares his insights into Jack’s life in this Paint Monk’s Library interview.)
By DEAN PLAKAS – PM Library Blogger
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“Jack Kirby: A Personal Journey” is a DVD documentary about the life of a comic book icon. |
At a time before Barry Windsor-Smith and Roy Thomas were changing the face of comics with the new and avant garde Conan the Barbarian, other movers and shakers were continuing to pave the way for Marvel to become the industry leader in the comics world.
Jack “King” Kirby is a name synonymous with Marvel Comics. He worked to create enduring legends such as the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, Thor, Captain America and more. His life, his work, and many interesting anecdotes are detailed in a documentary by Glenn B. Fleming titled “Jack Kirby: A Personal Journey.”
Fleming, a British artist, author, photographer, cartoonist and publisher, created the documentary after extensive correspondence and two visits with “The King” in the 1980s. I had the pleasure of interviewing Mr. Fleming with regard to his documentary on arguably the most influential and revered name in comic books. Here is the interview in its entirety.
DEAN: The name of your documentary is “Jack Kirby: A Personal Journey.” When, where and why was this documentary produced?
GLENN: “In 2017, to mark the hundredth year of his birth, I produced a documentary about one of my greatest childhood heroes, the comic genius Jack “King” Kirby. The documentary was premiered at the Oldham Library in England to a selected audience and continues to sell well.”
DEAN: Was Jack Kirby your role model, and if so, why?
GLENN: “I don’t know if Jack was ever a “role model,” but he certainly influenced my comic book set style. I first came across him at the age of ten – 1965 – when he was drawing just about everything in the Marvel Universe. The books he wasn’t drawing, he wrote and produced layouts for.”
DEAN: When did you first discover Jack Kirby?
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When Glenn’s brother Martin brought home a copy of Strange Tales #136, Kirby’s work became a strong influence. |
GLENN: “In the pages of Strange Tales #136. My brother Martin brought the book home one evening. There was Kirby, although he only did the layouts (John Severin produced the art.) On page five, there was a house ad for other books. The Fantastic Four, The Amazing Spider-Man, Daredevil, and Thor. I asked my brother if those books were in the shop. Apart from Daredevil, they were, and we put our pocket money together and bought them. I talk about this in more detail in the documentary.”
DEAN: How did Kirby’s work influence yours?
GLENN: “Well, I was jarred by the artwork. I was ten and had already written a book (25 pages!) and was always drawing my own stories in comic form. My English ‘heroes’ were Frank Bellamy, Ron Emblazon, Don Lawrence and Mike Noble, all fine artists, but all had a more illustrative style. Kirby’s work was different – square fingers, strange perspective, all bursting out of the panels. I began to copy his style. I couldn’t do it, but I believe Jack influenced me at that time in a more important way: the art of ‘storytelling’ in pictures. Two decades later, he told me so. He told me I ‘see things he sees.’ It was and remains the greatest compliment anyone has given me regarding my art. Storytelling is the most important single thing missing in today’s comics, in my opinion. I guess I was lucky. I learned from the master and he told me so.”
DEAN: Where there things you didn’t like about Kirby’s style?
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Jack “King” Kirby added distinctive style to Robert E. Howard’s Cimmerian. |
GLENN: “Kirby’s ‘women’ were not the prettiest. John Buscema draws beautiful women in my opinion. John Byrne less so, but nobody’s women were uglier than Steve Ditko’s! That said, I wish I could draw anything as well as the artists above. If you want to see beautiful, sexy women, check out the Italian artist Serpieri, but don’t show the kids!” (EDITOR’S NOTE: Don’t show the Paint Monk, either – Wally)
DEAN: So tell me how you met Jack Kirby at his home!
GLENN: “This is covered in great detail in the film; the simple version is that I went on holiday to Barbados and met an American couple, Bob and Suzanne, who were from California. During one of the many conversations over food and drinks on one of those lovely, warm Bajian evenings, I asked if they lived near a place called “Thousand Oaks.” They lived an hour away!
I arranged to go and stay with them the following year. Meanwhile, six months before I flew over to California. Suzanne sent me a letter with Jack’s phone number! I rang the number and a woman answered. The lady was Roz Kirby. She put Jack on the line and I arranged to go and see them when I was over there. Bob and Suzanne drove me over there and Roz prepared lunch. I couldn’t speak for two hours.”
DEAN: In the documentary, you describe a cartoon you drew of Jack Kirby and his wife Roz, and we see it prominently displayed on their mantle. Do you know if the family still has the cartoon you drew of them in their possession?
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Roz Kirby looks over the cartoon that Glenn drew for her and Jack. |
GLENN: “I have no idea if they still have the cartoon, but I hope they do. It was on the mantelpiece three years later when I went a second time. I hope they have it.”
DEAN: In the film you say you were able to look at many of his original pages that were returned from publishers for whom he worked. Were you fortunate enough to be given one?
GLENN: “No, but there were many I could have purchased. Many ‘western’ pages like Kid Colt and early stuff. I couldn’t really, really afford them then. I should have pushed the boat out and got a few, I wish I had.”
DEAN: Tell us about any difficulties in the production as a “heads up” for the viewer that might need clarification.
GLENN: “There are only two things with regard to the film that I’d do differently now; one, I would have filmed more and the second I would’ve taken a professional movie camera. The quality could be better, but when you get into it, I think those little quirks are lost in the magic of seeing and hearing Jack speak.”
DEAN: What would a Kirby fan or comic book fan get from buying this DVD collection both physically (booklet, etc.) and in general from watching the documentary of your meetings with him?
GLENN: “The footage is truly unique and I believe a must for all Kirby fans to see and hear Jack in his own words talking about his life. I’m not just saying this to boost sales – because sales are quite good – but that was never the point of the film. I’ve had this since 1991 and it was time to show it to the world. Jack’s hundredth birthday celebration seemed the appropriate time to release it.”
DEAN: They say that sometimes it’s not good to meet your idols as it might end up being a disappointment. Does apply to your meeting with Kirby?
GLENN: “I’m not one of those people who believe that; I believe if you want to meet one of your ‘heroes’ and get the chance, grab it with both hands. In my opinion, I’d rather regret meeting someone than not. They may turn out to be totally different from your perception, even a disappointment, but at least you would know. I have interviewed my heroes who walked on the moon; I’ve met and spoken to some of my rock heroes.
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Glenn and Jack review some early Kirby artwork. |
I talked a lot with my dad – now HE was a hero, and like Jack, literally put his life on the line against the greatest evil of the 20th century, if not the greatest evil in history. We are only here once and when that gift horse opens its mouth, you get an iron bar, jam it in so he can’t close his mouth and grab all you can. Could, woulda, shoulda. Just do it, or at least try. Jack was a gentleman, generous, humble and funny.
I know he loved the fact that I had sought him out, coming half way around the world to shake his hand. I’m glad I spent the time. The money was considerable, but worth it for the prize, and so I did it again and I’m proud of that. Only three men made it to the moon twice; I’m the only person I know who met Jack twice and none of them went to his house and broke bread with him. Now you mention ‘heroes,’ well Roz Kirby became another hero of mine that day (maybe I should say heroine!) Roz was fantastic – a beautiful woman and strong, she had Jack’s back and believe me, if Uncle Sam had sent her over on D-Day, the war would have been over by Christmas if not before. Imagine that: German soldiers peering over their trenches in anticipation, only to see Roz Kirby, Jack AND my dad coming at them!”
DEAN: What did you personally learn from meeting Jack that you would not have guessed about him had you not met him?
GLENN: “How beautiful his wife was and how humble he was.”
DEAN: What do you hope the viewer gains from this?
GLENN: “Jack’s humor. He was a funny man, but understated. His story about the minefield, although brief, is one of the funniest things I’ve heard. Just the look on his face.”
DEAN: How do you want Jack to be remembered from this documentary?
GLENN: “Jack was ‘real.’ No airs and graces, just honesty.”
DEAN: If we’re sitting here a year from now celebrating what a great year it’s been for you, looking back, how do you see the significance of this project or accomplishment in your career or life? Not many can say that they did what you did twice with Jack Kirby.
GLENN: “I still have another ten minutes or so of film that I edited out, because of quality not content. Maybe I should release a ‘Director’s Cut’ version and get it all out there! If there is any significance in the film, it’s the rarity of the footage of this great man. What happened to him, his creations, his art…I’ll leave people to find out from other sources. I purposely didn’t talk about any of that. I decided before I went out there that I wouldn’t do that.
The second time I went out there, Roz pulled me to one side and asked me not to talk about that; she wasn’t asking me not to, though – she was telling me! I reassured her that that was not my intention and she took my word. She trusted me and that meant a lot. I didn’t find Jack bitter about all that stuff – he seemed OK, he didn’t mention it and only spoke with warmth and affection his life in comics. As I said above, I wish I could have filmed the whole afternoon.
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A group photo from Glenn’s California trip. |
He told me about creating Doctor Doom and other things. I wrote up both days I met him and still have my notes and quotes. Meeting Jack was a highlight for sure, meeting Roz doubly so. I suppose you could say the universe had (my brother) Martin buy that Strange Tales comic 20 years earlier so I could meet Roz! Like US President John F. Kennedy said about his wife Jackie, Jack could say he was the man who accompanied Mrs. Kirby to the ball!”
DEAN: Besides a possible Director’s Cut of your Kirby film, what else may we expect from you as 2018 begins to wind down?
GLENN: “My dad remains a multi-decorated war hero and I am presently writing a book about his role in the British 6th Airborne on D-Day, following the end of hostilities in the European theatre. He went on to be Regimental Sergeant Major in the Indian Army, lending his considerable expertise to the newly formed Indian Airborne forces in that country. Before D-Day, his introduction to the violence of the world was in Libya, literally earning his stripes as a member of Monty’s Long Range Desert Group, which later became the SAS. The book about my dad’s war service will contain many of my illustrations of that conflict.
Apart from the book about my dad, I’m also writing and illustrating a book about my visit to Rapa Nui (Easter Island.) Two more books, a science fiction novel ‘Iapetus Rising’ (again, illustrated by myself) and a book on the Apollo moon flights (I interviewed two of the twelve moonwalkers) are to be published next year.”
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I thank Mr. Fleming for this interview and for sharing his thoughts and private photographs with regard to his personal journey with Jack Kirby. The documentary shows Fleming, Kirby and their companions at Kirby’s home in California. Just hearing from the legend himself telling various stories of his youth is worth the price of the DVD.
You can purchase Glenn B. Fleming’s documentary “Jack Kirby: A Personal Journey” at www.glennbfleming.com or you can email him directly at gbf1555@gmail.com
– Dean Plakas